LDS, Justification Sola Fide and Romans

The LDS church teaches that justification is by works and faith. When pointed to Romans and the clear teachings of Paul that in fact justification is by faith and apart from works (this is the doctrine known as sola fide), the LDS church states one of two possible options: (1) the Bible contradicts itself, as James obviously teaches justification by works and faith; or (2) Paul actually does teach justification by works, Christians merely fail to understand what Paul is saying in his letter to the Romans.

Now, only a few members of the LDS church, but enough to make me scratch my head in utter amazement, have tried to hold the first option as the truth. They will say things like, "That's why I will just listen to what Jesus said." Uh huh. May as well throw out all of the New Testament except for the Gospels and parts of Acts; while we are at it, toss out the Old Testament. Oh, and you'll have to cut out any letters still in black from those Gospels. Then go to the LDS Scriptures! Look at how much you will have to toss there.

The majority I have come accross will say Paul actually does teach justification by works in his letter to the Roman church. I cannot find any shred of truth to that, so I challenge the members on this issue. In my latest challenge (found on the CARM.org LDS discussion board), the particular posters involved in the discussion say that because Christ is the fulfillment of the law of Moses, and men are now justified by faith. Because faith necessarily includes works, and Abraham did not do works of the law, but he did do works, on that basis was he justified.

Here is the post given by one LDS poster:

Read chapters 1-3 in setting up chapter four. It will describe to you that the law is fulfilled and men are now justified by faith and not by the deeds of the law (3:28). Thus He is not just the God of the jews who work the deeds of the law, but the God of all. Setting up nicely his continued explanation in chapter 4. Abraham did not do the works of the law, but he certainly worked. And as James says, his works were counted to him for righteousness (James 2:21-23). Belief in the context of how the bible and apostle use it most certianly includes faith, and that in context most certainly includes works.

I must also include words he gave later in the post:

Paul tells us the law is fulfilled in Christ and those who do the works of the law of Moses lording it over the gentiles as though jews are saved and gentiles not, are missing the whole concept of faith and Christ's fulfilling the law. This is included in his explanation in chapters 1-4.

Now, I read over the chapters he brought up and Paul never said the law is fulfilled in Christ. He did say that "we establish the law" (Rom. iii.31), but that's different. So, where do they come with the idea that Paul said this?

You may say, "But you do agree that Christ is the fulfillment of the law, right? So, what is the problem?" Well, if we are trying to see what Paul is actually saying, then we have to stick with what Paul is actually saying, right? Is this not evidence of reading the text incorrectly? This is like reading John vi and saying, "John tells us that having been justified by faith we have peace with God." Well, that would be wrong. Paul said that, not John. While it may be true, John never said that. BTW the only mention of Christ being the fulfillment of the law and prophets is in Mat. v.17. I will be looking into that as I go.

I asked for an exegesis of the text as I would like to see how they develop their understanding and doctrine from this letter. I was given a quick, simple overview. That's not what I am looking for. I want to see a thought out process of understanding the text, the language, the context, and bringing out this teaching that Paul explains as justification by faith and works. Again I asked for an exegesis, and was told no because there is no point in doing so if I could not understand even the simple explanations already given. So, I will do an exegesis of the text and hope that they will in turn see what I am looking for from the LDS perspective, and write one up for review.

Specifically I will be centering on Rom. iii.19-iv.8. That is quite the core passage in the early portion of this letter, and essential to understanding Paul's doctrine of justification by faith alone. In this exegesis will be included the context, understanding all the issues Paul's talking about, and so forth. So, don't think the only verses going to be looked at are iii.19-iv.8; those are only the starting point.

I will also be doing one on John vi.35-45, if any one is interested. Feel free to e-mail me, or catch me on Yahoo! Messenger: ldsreview. I will be opening up a discussion board; one of the main topics will include the LDS church, so look forward to that (also there will be NT Greek, Church History, Reformed Doctrine, Scripture).